in this country to make -- to move to new york city. listeners out there in kansas or alaska or hawaii, you may think it would be a big shift to go and move to new york, but i must tell you that upstate new york is the part of the united states which feels itself most alien from new york city because we're in the same state. we were always thinking about it, how they were taking our taxes and whatnot. the one time i went to new york as a little boy was for the world's fair in '64-'65. i remember just walking down a sidewalk and a guy was hawking a tabloid, and there was a headline in big letters, "rips out heart, stomps on it." i thought, they don't run headlines like that in the rochester democrat and chronicle. so, it was a shift. c-span: parents still alive? >> guest: yes, yes. c-span: still working? >> guest: no, retired. c-span: what did they do? >> guest: my dad worked for eastman kodak, which is in rochester, the major employer in rochester, and my mom worked for the school system. c-span: who got you interested in education? >>